2022 surplus allocation and downtown police pilot funding

Thank you. Thank you.

okay everyone i'd like to call the meeting to order uh thank you for joining us this is our city council meeting for wednesday may 31st 2023 it's uh 5 45 pm so we're starting now and Right off the top, as is described on the open agenda, we are looking for an option to move into closed session under a couple items. Before I go into those, is there any disclosure of pecuniary interest or any general nature thereof for the closed items that anyone needs to be aware of? So hearing and seeing none. And the two items that are listed is June 2023, public appointments to the Guelph Police Services Board. that's section 2392b of the municipal act relating to personal matters about an identifiable individual including municipal or local board employees and the second is the memorandum of agreement between the city of guelph and the ontario public service employees union

local 231 that is under section 2392d of the municipal act related to labor relations or employee negotiations those are the only two items being considered can i look to a member of council to move us into closed session. Councillor Gawler is willing to move it and Klausen is willing to second that. Is anything further on those? Hearing, seeing none. Is anyone against moving into closed on those two items? Hearing and seeing none, it's unanimous. For those watching or listening later on to this, we're just going to have a quick closed meeting discussion about this and I will give a high-level summary when I come back out of the closed meeting. Thank you. Thank you.

Okay, everyone, I'd like to call the meeting to order. Now, earlier we did have a closed meeting, and that closed meeting was on two subjects, as outlined on the open agenda. June 2023, public appointments to the Guelph Police Service Board, and the second one was the memorandum of agreement between the City of Guelph and the Ontario Public Services Employees Union, Local 231. I'm going to give a statement in regards to the second one, and then I'm going to go to Councillor Ault in regards to the first one. So in regards to the second one, it's my privilege to say that we're very happy that we did give direction to staff in finalizing and executing this agreement with the union. And I just really wanted to, on behalf of council, indicate that we really appreciate both bargaining groups, our staff on the city side and, of course, the union themselves, for working towards an agreement.

And we look forward to that being executed. So thank you very much. That's the summary in regards to that. And now I'll just go to Councillor Ault, please, in regards to the appointment for the Police Services Board as he has a motion to bring forward in open session. Thank you, Mayor Guthrie. And if I could ask clerks to kindly please put that up on screen. I'm very happy to move the motion that Ajay Sharma be appointed to the Guelph Police Services Board for term ending November 15, 2026, or until such time as a successor is appointed. I don't believe I think the grammar is wrong but I think we know what it means and I believe that it was Councillor Downer who is willing to second it so for consistency sake Alton downer thank you so anything further on that in the open session hearing none I'll call the vote is anyone against this appointment hearing and seeing none that's unanimous so thank you to the police services board for the recommendation and Ajay on being successful for joining us we look forward to having you work in that capacity with that that is the summary from the closed session so again

just calling the meeting to order for the open session now more formally and I would like to ask us all to please stand as we recognize our national anthem.

Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you very much. I will say, just a little nudge, this side of the room was quite good today with the National Anthem. didn't quite hear a little bit over here so this side's gonna have to do a bit better but that was well done all right uh just continuing on a moment of silent reflection

great thank you and a territorial acknowledgement as we gather we're reminded that guelph is situated on treaty land that is steeped in rich indigenous history and home to many first nations inuit and metis people today as a city we have a responsibility for the stewardship of the land on which we both live and work today we acknowledge the mississaugas of the credit first nation of the initiative peoples on whose traditional territory we are meeting now is there any disclosure of pecuniary interest or general nature thereof for any of the items in front of us tonight i don't hear or see anybody so consider that matter closed uh just for formality uh councillor gibson did give regrets uh for tonight's meeting so um right away we have the confirmation of open minutes for april 18th 25th 26th 2023 and the open committee of the whole meeting that was held on april 4th 2023 to be confirmed as recorded and without being read would someone please be willing to move that for me uh councillor downer will and councillor alts will uh second that is there anything on the minutes before i call the vote okay i don't hear or see anything so i'll call the vote is anyone against the minutes

okay that's unanimous and we'll we'll move on so we have the consent agenda uh and And I believe I'll just go through each one. I believe I know a couple might be pulled, but I'll just quickly go through. So the 2022 year-end operating budget monitoring and surplus allocation report. I just want to make sure anyone else wanted to pull that. Nope, okay. And then the 2022 year-end capital budget. And I believe Councillor Downer would like to pull that one, so that's fine. And then the 2022 long-term financial statement, the reserves and debt. nothing on that one the e-scooter motion from councillor galler nothing on that and then we are going to get into the council consent which is the guelph police service downtown which councillor galler has asked to have that bold as well and then we already took care of the police services board appointments so just those two um so i'm looking for uh councillor busentil thank you so much is willing to move the consent and sir councilor karon is willing to second anything

further on that i don't see or hear anybody so we're good i'll call the vote on consent anyone against consent and again that's unanimous thank you very much so let me move over to councillor downer for a moment on the 2022 year-end capital budget monitoring report with something further for us to consider go ahead yeah so i think we can this is a third one like you have one and two so i don't know if everybody wants to vote on that first or and then i'll do nine member three yep great so you're willing to move the first two yeah karon willing thank you karon your award mate is seconding that um so is there anything on those two before i call the vote only on those two doesn't look like it okay i'll call the vote on that so is anyone not in favor of those recommendations again no one's not in favor so that's unanimous as well I'll go to you for the third motion you're presenting okay so I would ask if the clerks could put up the the motion and this is the heritage motion that I had been talking about a few times to that I was going to bring forward from the surplus so it's not necessarily from the surface it's gone in and now it's coming

out so the 500 000 be approved uh for pl 0076 heritage initiatives and be funded from the growth reserve fund number 156 to expedite the timing of the ward west cultural heritage study and assist with heritage initiatives tied to the changes to the heritage act and associated deadlines contained in bill 23. i think councillor karon wanted to second it okay so um i'm gonna start out by saying something positive about the provincial government. Mayor Guthrie, you might be surprised. I've heard. But I think they actually recognize that heritage is significant, is important in Ontario. And it's important to this council. I mean, one of the things that when we brought forward the OR, we wanted to do the whole cultural heritage action plan, they said yes. Okay, fine, go ahead and do that. And they asked us, what did we think was a good heritage asset? When we got the changes back from OP-80, they maintained sight lines to the Basilica of Our Lady. They didn't just take those out.

And I would say, too, that in Bill 23, like a number of other things, they could have just implemented the elimination of the register completely, immediately. And they did. They said, okay, councils, you have two years to get your Heritage Act in order, pun intended. So I would say that's positive. They're recognizing that heritage isn't something important for us to preserve and to consider as we look to build out. So many have been asking me, many in the public and on council, actually, now that I'm on Heritage Guelph, what can we do with this two-year deadline? How can we deal with that deadline of the individual designations to expedite that? Because in reality, we're probably only going to be able to get, with the current capacity, about 10 to 15 designations done before that deadline's done. And that leaves a lot of heritage assets in the city vulnerable. But doing cultural heritage landscapes sort of covers off doing more than that. You get more done. So, you know, we have the OR, the downtown, old part of the downtowns being done.

And we had paused Ward West to do the Ontario Reformatory because the province asked us what was important there. So this motion reinitiates that process and moves it forward from the original 2024 time that we were looking at doing that. We had paused it. And that way we'll be able to cover off more properties rather than looking at things one by one. Also, I'd want to point out that these are done in phases. The study is done first to determine what would be heritage assets. In Ward West, not everything probably will be. And then there's guidelines around how to create some predictability in there for development. um it doesn't mean there can't be demolition can't be infill i live in a heritage district we've had infill houses we've got tiny houses and backyards going in lots is happening in our neighborhood and recently the town of erin has used their 2022 surplus to do heritage work due to bill 23 so i think this is probably and that's all i've read about i think this is probably happening across the province people trying to council's trying to find innovative ways to sort

deal with that two-year deadline. So the Ward West is a priority in the downtown secondary plan. That did not change with the amendments to Bill 80, the Ward West is a priority in the Cultural Heritage Action Plan. The $400,000 would be up to $400,000 to do the heritage study and then the $100,000 to have a contract staff person and the contract person my understanding from in discussions with staff would be used to to do the public engagements actually for all three projects for the downtown for the ward west and then for the plan for the or because we already did this study that frees up our planning our heritage staff's expertise to deal with the designations that need to be done because if they have to do the public engagement part for all of those, they don't have time to do designations. So that sort of frees that up. So it's sort of a bigger bang for our buck and moving it all forward. After our deadline's done, I'm not quite sure what we're going to be able to do with heritage, but probably more heritage districts, but that's down the road to consider.

So I did want to say that I couldn't bring it to Heritage Guelph because our meeting in May was cancelled. There wasn't anything completed to put on the agenda. But I did email the chair and the rest of the committee members, and I had a very positive response for this motion to move forward. There already is a motion on the books from Heritage Guelph when we paused the Ontario Reformatory, when we paused the Board West before to do the Ontario Reformatory, that they would actually have liked us to have done the ward rest concurrently with the reformatory. So basically, Heritage Guelph has already sort of approved this before. And they also approved the work that's been done. So those are my comments. And yeah, so that's it. So I'm looking at any questions. And I think staff are prepared to answer anything else about how it might roll out. hey thank you i i think you've explained it quite well so thank you is there any questions do we

need any questions from staff doesn't look like it okay any comments needed here or can i just uh call the vote gotta gotta call the vote all those not in favor raise your hand it's unanimous easy peasy thank you very much we're going to move on to the counselor galler the guelph police services downtown initiative um maybe just as we just did with the last one would you move the one the receipt of the memo at least yes and who would be willing to uh second that Councillor Ault will second that. Any questions on just receiving the memo? No? Comments on that? No? Okay. Oh, okay. Yep. Councillor Caten. Sorry, did you have a question or comment? I just had a request for information on the program that I was going to request through either you or Councillor Ault as police board members. I can do this after.

No, no, this is the right time because it has to do with the memo. Then we can go to yours after the question Councillor Gawler. Okay. Councillor Caten, I've lost you on the screen, but I can hear you. Did you want to ask something specific? Yeah, sorry, is it going off the screen? Let me see here. Where are we back? Yes, you're here. Yep. Sorry, my iPad is being classy today. So I just had a question for the police board members to forward to the chair of the police board and get back to us based on some community comments that I've received on both ends of the issue. I'd just like to know how the police department is addressing equity with the new downtown police initiative, but I wanted to kind of give a bit of context. So I'm the police, like I'm a child of a police sergeant and a female perceived white person, so I have considerable privilege in police conversations and I've had to go to the police twice in Guelph and both times I felt very comfortable and my issues were resolved to my satisfaction. But not everybody's had this same experience with police depending on their backgrounds and this isn't a commentary on our

local force but rather a systemic issue within North America. So the downtown I understand is perceived as unsafe by some demographics because of visibly in-house people, some bar hoppers and some people suffering from addiction. But similarly the police are perceived as unsafe by other demographics. And this kind of came about when I had heard of the woman who was attacked in I believe it was Kitchener and she had asked for the police to not show up in uniform in her neighborhood and this was a response from her. So I was thinking this is probably something very similar with our community potentially. And even my daughter who has had zero bad experiences with police asked why the army was downtown one time when she saw a heavily outfitted police officer on regular patrol during the afternoon on a Saturday. She said it made her feel nervous because she never sees people dressed like video games. So I was just wondering what steps are being considered to address the need for all people to feel safe downtown including those who are historically uncomfortable with heavily uniformed police. Okay. Yeah, I, I'll let Councillor, because it was to Councillor, I think we're on the same page. Well, I'll let Councillor Alta speak.

Thank you very much, Mayor Guthrie. Through you to Councillor Caton. I heard very clearly your concerns. I'm going to suggest that we as members of the police board acting currently as councillors are not in a position to necessarily answer this but i would suggest that the appropriate route to go perhaps would be to contact uh chair peter mcsherry by the police services board for a formal response either from from chair mcsherry or from chief kobe or the board or perhaps all three america i don't know whether that reflects your concerns or not you have summarized it perfectly um because it is an operational matter we are not in a position to be able to answer on behalf of the outside entity being the board that it is it's the spokesperson who is the chair or the chief um so i did may i ask you a question counselor katin did you reach out did you reach out to the chief or to the chair before bringing this question to us today no i haven't because i wasn't sure of the process no it's okay i'm not calling you out at all i just want yeah it's i I just want I was just curious so yeah good question any question is a good question just

want to make sure that yeah and this is for everybody just so they know it would almost be similar in a way like it'd be similar like in a way almost if a public health question got asked right to the chair or to the executive director or CEO of public health instead of our appointments here just because that's the spokesperson from our governance perspective that needs to answer those questions so it's not a dismissive answer because it's not worthy of a response it's just where the the question is placed that's all i just wasn't sure if i was supposed to ask you as representatives to ask them or if that was something that i know no any counselor can reach out for sure in fact any community member could reach out yep perfect thank you very much yeah no thank you okay um so i'll call the vote then on the memo of just receiving okay all right is Is anyone against just receiving the memo? Okay, so that's unanimous. And then, Councillor Galler, go ahead with your motion that you wanted to bring forth. Thank you, and through your worship, as per the memo, I would like to move the DeWolf Police Services Board request, dated April 20th, 2023, to use $260,000 of the police operating contingency reserved be approved.

And I have a seconder, Councillor O'Rourke. Okay, thank you very much. so we have a seconder we I have a question question for counselor alt please thank you very much through you mr. mayor to counselor goller I have no problem with the motion at all but I believe for the public I was wondering if you could please provide some clarification what its intent is absolutely I I'm one of the counselors that sits on the board of the downtown BA along with counselor downer and one of the main issues that we're hearing from our downtown businesses is the need for more of a police presence in the downtown. And from residents that live in the downtown, I'm hearing from many of my constituents who are in War II that they are often feeling unsafe when they're out and about in the downtown. And that is mainly due to a large presence of community members who are accessing services at Royal City Mission and other downtown locations who may be dealing with mental health issues, with addictions issues, who may be experiencing homelessness. And there's just not enough services and supports available

in terms of mental health supports, addiction treatment facilities in the city. There is a big gap. And one of the things that the police presence do is they provide a bit of comfort for the community members and for the downtown businesses that when they have an issue in the downtown, there's someone that they can access. So it has been quite a positive experience. Last summer, there were resources reallocated to have additional police who were previously in schools. They were put in the downtown for the summer, and there was a very positive response that just the extra people walking around, keeping an eye on things, made a positive impact. and by all intents, we really should have other levels of response to the issues of homelessness, of addictions, of mental health, but in the absence of an immediate response, we do want to see, and I say we as the community members that live and that go to downtown, and we as the downtown businesses want to see more of a police presence

just to help with everyday maintaining comfort in the downtown. I hope that answers your question, Councillor Arundt. Thank you. I do have a couple of follow-ups and perhaps also a clarification because I do want to be clear that it is the chief of police responsibility to assign staff where it is considered to be appropriate. But this particular request is in tandem with a request, I believe, from Chief Kobe as well. so it's not out of the ordinary but I do have one very important question for you Councillor Gauley and it stems from your comments and I'm sure I know the answer already you are not in your remarks implying that the downtown is unsafe for anyone whether they be shoppers consumers or the homeless receiving support or whatever I presume that's the case is that right well so So this is the challenge that the downtown, depending on where you are, you could be going downtown. And when there is a number of people that are congregating on the streets, if someone is experiencing a mental health crisis, you could feel safe.

Absolutely. And I think that having more presence of people that can provide supports, direct people to the right services, that is helpful. I think we are getting to the point where I have constituents who are writing me letters saying, you need to declare a state of emergency. We have a mental health crisis in the city and we need action immediately. I'm sorry, I'm not going to get into the debate. With all due respect, two things. I do feel quite safe downtown. And while I do not disagree with you about a mental health crisis in Guelph, in Ontario and in Canada, I do not think that we should necessarily confine our concern for that to policing in the downtown. down? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. This is one of many of many responses that are needed. Really what we need is provincial funding and federal funding for housing, for mental health supports, for addiction treatment. But even if that funding is made available at some point, it takes time. We saw with Grace Gardens that funding was given to build permanent supportive housing and then it takes time to build the permanent supportive housing. I think in there will be other meetings. Later next month, we have county coming to talk to us about social housing and the cost for that.

And at that time, we can have more conversations about this, what we can influence from a municipal perspective. I think this is one of many tools that are needed to address the issues. All right. Thank you to the two of you. I think I would just like to comment just on I think over the overall conversation. I just feel like I need to sort of say something. So I'm glad Councillor Ault sort of jumped in by I just don't want there to be a constant connection of a narrative that those experiencing homelessness or mental health and addictions equals some kind of an unsafe atmosphere or immediate only police response that's required because even as all chiefs everywhere will say, we cannot police our way out of this. So I just want to say that kind of out loud. And then the other thing, though, I would say is one of the things that I'm really proud of for the police services is that they are very much

data-driven and they are collecting a ton of data over this pilot project. And that is what this is. It's a pilot project to actually see like how many interactions are happening, what type of interactions are they, and what raises itself to where an arrest or a charge was actually done, Which is where an actual police officer is needed. Where are the interactions where they weren't? And to be able to collect this data through this pilot program, which is what this funding is to go towards, will enable the police board, the public, to be able to weigh and have a conversation later on in the year after the pilot project is done to see not only the data and the metrics captured in that, but also to get a sense of feedback, just normal feedback, exactly as you said, Councillor Collar, from citizens, from businesses, from the DGBA, from us, and so on. So has the overall narrative and response for the last month or so that this pilot project's been going been positive? I would say yes, for all those reasons. But I think I'm really interested. I'm sure we all are. What's the real numbers and the data and the metrics?

how is it working and and that's a fair question to be asking when we are looking at giving 260 thousand dollars to a project we do need to have that to discern discern where we go in next steps so i just want to make sure people are clear that we're not going to police our way out of this this is a response not so much always attached to the narrative of some of the issues experienced in the downtown, but it will give us the ability to have another conversation at a board level, I'm sure, later on. Thank you. I just wanted to make sure I was trying to be as clear as I could there, just to not leave it sort of hanging. Councillor Caten, I saw your hand go up, and then I saw O'Rourke and Karan. Okay, go ahead, Caten. Thank you. Through you to Councillor Gallard, I'm just a little bit confused. Is this the same thing as what was proposed earlier so are we just moving funds from the reserves that exist into the police reserves for this pilot program or is this something new this is not something new counselor Katon when it comes to the budget there will be a request at that

time for for this to be made permanent but but for maybe but for now this is just yeah not a new program. Would we be getting a presentation on the outcome of it before the next steps? If you don't mind, I'll answer that Councillor Payton. Yes, we have been indicating that all of this will come back to the police board. Thank you very much. You got it. You got it. O'Rourke and then Karan. Thank you, Mayor Guthrie. Through you, I have two questions just for clarification and then a comment. I'm wondering, so through you Mayor Guthrie, Councillor Gawler brought the motion, but Councillor Ault and yourself are on the Police Services Board, so I'm just wondering if there's a reason why it wasn't tabled by one of you, and if you have any concerns about this. Mayor Gawler- Well, I can't move motions here because I'm the Chair. That is true. Mayor Gawler- So that's, I wish I could. I'd have 10 motions at a time. and before the meeting Councillor Gauher just indicated that he wanted to make sure it went forward

and Councillor Alt immediately was like yeah and I'll second it there's no reason why there was one over the other it was just getting it done but Councillor Alt you need to answer because you were asked I guess that's fine second question second question just for clarification this is taking funds from the police's own surplus account and then transferring it so that they can use it. This is part of their surplus. This is theirs, really, right? The answer is yes, but I think our CFO should make sure the Mayor is saying the right thing. So through the Mayor to Councillor O'Rourke, that's correct. Terrific. Thank you, Ms. Baker. And through you, Mr. Mayor, just a comment around definitely Gulf Police are very data-driven. We've seen that. They know where they have the highest incidence. there's a lot of desire from the community to have community-based policing in part to de-escalate some of the interventions. And there was an officer previously, I think Officer Mark, and he was kind of beloved by everybody. So that when there's a problem, the officer is not showing up in a moment of crisis. They're a person who has been helpful or they have been present.

It means we've got first responders who are walking around downtown and knowing people. and I think that's it's I think it's important um and I will say I think it's important that we recognize the good work that our police officers do because frankly there's um there's a trend nationally and and they can be very vulnerable so I appreciate their presence and their work uh downtown and throughout the city well thank you very much and Karan please I could not have articulated that my comments as well as as Councillor O'Rourke and just encouraging those who are watching and anyone who reads the media out of this meeting to please come downtown because that data-driven approach means we need our citizens we need people shopping and coming downtown for all the right reasons and to be able to to have that comparative data and and i certainly feel safe downtown and i hope our residents do as well great all right thank you and thanks for the the discussion and and context there I appreciate it it's been moved and seconded so I'll look to you okay counselor all yeah yeah okay um I'll look to call the vote then uh all those not in favor

uh please raise your hand okay so that's unanimous as well thank you so much and as I said the public appointment has already been done so I'm going to look to counselor Billings please for bringing for the adoption of bylaws but I will just say that on the first bylaw 20792 we are going to just be adding the words as amended so go ahead Councillor Billings okay thank you Mr. Mayor I I will move and seconded by Councillor O'Rourke that bylaws numbered 20792 and 202320803 are hereby passed as amended. Thank you. And just because we need to just make sure transparently we're telling people, well, what is the as amended thing? It's just a clerical thing, but I'll just want the clerk to say it out loud so everyone knows what it is. Yes, thank you, Mr. Mayor. And my apologies, council. That first bylaw as amended is 20797. And that's not a fault or a matter that Councillor Billings made a mistake on. That was an error in terms of the typo on the page.

So it's bylaws 20797 and 20803, 20797 is as amended. Thank you. Got it. All right. And it's already been moved. I'm so sorry, I missed the seconder. It was Councillor O'Rourke. Yes, always there at a second. Appreciate it. Anything on these bylaws? Hearing and seeing none, I'm going to call the vote. Is anyone against the bylaws as amended? And we're good. That's unanimous as well. For the mayor's announcements, I just want to say it was a great national accessibility week flag raising a couple days ago. Many of you were there or supported online and in your commentary. so I just want to thank council and staff for that and just to say that there was a little bit of a an accountability ask that we just don't look at it you know once a year during the flag raising and that's very fair commentary and so I say it to myself as much as I say it to everyone else you know in all that we do there's sort of another lens that we should always constantly be looking through when it comes to these issues and so thank you for those that are raising it

and i wish everyone all the best as they continue looking through that lens at least for this week and hopefully for beyond because it is an important matter with that i'm looking for adjournment counselor coran is willing to do that classen is seconding for me uh and i don't think anyone would be against that but i'll call the vote anyways as anyone against adjournment doesn't look like it that means it's unanimous have a great night everyone thank you very much bye-bye